Forums: April 2007 - The Proposition (2005)

Here is the poll for the April film for discussion in the Movie Club. Voting will close sometime April 16th, allowing one week to cast your vote, after which time this thread will become dedicated to discussion for the chosen film. Everyone please vote!

The voting has closed and the film is The Proposition. Discussion can begin at any time, and a new poll will go up at the start of May.



THE PROPOSITION
Directed By: John Hillcoat
Written By: Nick Cave
Originally Released: October 6, 2005 (Australia)
Rated: R for strong grisly violence, and for language.
Starring: Guy Pearce & Ray Winstone

I just saw it, and I have to say it was the very first Western I've seen. I thought it was great. I'll write more thoughts later.

I'm currently watching it , will do my breakdown of it tonight or tomorow

Ok now i'm ready let's do this

Opening credits : I heard a director ( dont remember who ) who said that you can predict if the movie his gonna be good just by looking at the opening credits and the song or score that comes with it , I'm of that opinion too. Has soon I watch that opening slide show of old photos of that time in that place ( I think most of them are real) with that fantastic song sing wonderfully by a young girl . I knew this one was a keeper. and has soon has the credits end your smack into action you know your in for quite an artistic ride.

Location : I'm glad someone did an australian western , that beging of history looks even more harsh then the american wild west. That desert his f*cking harsh you can see that it could drive anyone crazy , cant see why people wanted to go there ( I'm pretty sure most were force and I always thought that australia in the beginning was like a prison meaning that most immigrants that colonized it were criminals or undesired citizens of british countries) .

Score and story : f*cking awesome , i'm putting them together since they were both done by Nick Cave and I think that the music really intertwined the story and the scenes , I cant say that i'm familliar with his music I may of heard some of his songs not sure, Man that score his really something I love both the opening song(we do ear that one tru out the movie) and the closing song great choices there. And the story his really your typical revenge western but a lot more complex then were used too .I like that he made the violence in this film really ugly and realistic and thats it's not your typical shoot em'up western. And I love that John hillcoat did not shy away of showing what violence and blood really looks like , man that bloody Ray Winstone is harsh too watch he really looks like he was beat like hell. It's a coup of genius too never too shown what really happen to that familly and who really rape her and that the character you would like to see die the most (Eden Fletcher) doesnt die at all

Dialogue and characters : again i think those two should go together because different characters should not sound all the same , because from what word they used and what subject they talk you can learn a lot about a character. I got to say that all the characters are marvelously writen and are all pretty complex.
I like that the most psychopath of the bunch is also the youngest one , I found myself fascinating by that Samuel Stote character he is such a ignorant psychopath but he still looks childish and you still want to pity him and you gotta love how his first singng scene his intertwinned with Mick burns lashing sequence.
Arthur burns his just plain crazy maybe he wasnt when he first arrived in Australia but the harshness of that place got to him. And again Guy Pierce took on a role that looks like it was written only for him (like most of his films tremendous actor there)but the way he played slightly made me thought of his character in Ravanous. I love how Two dog was written and played the same goes for Captain Stanley and his wife. But The movie would not of been the same without the excellent John hurt playing the bounty hunter Jellon Lamb , man most of his dialogue are memorable quotes and you gotta love how he get shot and how he dies.
But i have to say having seen Van helsing last week it seems to me that David Wenham's character Eden Fletcher got scared after that and fled australia to become a fryer and he met up with Helsing , cuz they both sound the same and it look like he played it the same way too

Favorites scenes and quotes : When Jellon Lambs dies and shouts in agony oh and his speech before is pure ear candy
When Arthur Burns stomps to death sergeant lawrence and then Two dog gives back the knife to a dead Jacko saying here's your knife dog , well all that scene is full of memorable quotes '' youve got the wrong f*cking black man'',
I love the scene were Charlie burns get impaled and he his looking at ''the blacks'' and you see one head blew off , f*cking cool.
But the most beautifull scene for me his when Charlie goes to sit down with his diyng brother and Arthur says you got me charlie what are you gonna do now, and then you slowly see him going from a view from the back , the colors of that shot are really a piece of art.

Thats all for now thanks for reading and for disregarding all my spelling mystakes

''I'm not drunk now ,I'm on the job now''

Yeah I loved the last scene, it was very scenic and memorable.

The location is one that interests me, because I've read up on the Australian 'conquest', if you can call it that, and the VERY steep declines in the numbers of indigenous people. The constant references to "civilizing this land" also struck a note because much of the justification in doing what they were doing is to bring light and civilize the savages, the uncivilized.

To me, Mikey's lash scene was the most heart wrenching, as you saw him screaming in pain and for help as Ray Winstone and Emily Watson looked on. On that note, I thought both of these actors were great, as were Guy Pearce and the bounty hunter.

I just saw it, and I have to say it was the very first Western I've seen.

Hope that this one turn you on to watch more western , but do keep in mind theres not a lot of westerns that are like this one but i would recommend that you start with Once upon a time in the west

This film made me think a litle of Once upon a time in the west because both have marvelous scores and both are based on an horrific tragedy that happen to a familly

Oh I will start getting into them soon, in fact very soon.

I have nothing to complain about when it comes to this movie. It's beautifully shot, well written, incredibly acted and the score is beautiful and haunting at the same time. The characters are all very complex and have a lot of depth to them. The fact that John Hillcoat decided to make this a very realistic look at blood and death only accented this film's magnificence. Guy Pearce and Danny Huston have great chemistry, as do Ray Winestone and Emily Watson (who I absolutely loved in this role). John Hurt's very brief part made a significant mark on this film as well. I can't wait to see more from the director/writer team that brought us this film (John Hillcoat, Nick Cave). I read a review of this film that said at one point "the western is alive and well", and I couldn't agree more.

Sorry for the choppy and unorganized nature of this comment, I'm in a hurry.

So are we only 3 who watch the movie yet , month's almost over folks

I first saw this movie in an AFI silver theatre in silver spring. It really blew me away. Recently I rewatched it on DVD and wrote a review. check it out:

To civilize a uncivilized land, violence is the tool men must use. In this Australian Set Western, the strongest and most prevalent motif is just that...violence. Nick Cave's poetic and moving dialouge paired with the violent savagry of the charecters creates an ominous and extremely capturing film. Almost "Leone" in some of the geographical and metaphysical motifs, this film will make you cringe from the incredibly realistic violence, but also think about what the violence is representing...what its there for. Every violent scene, every blood red sunset, every lightning storm and every powerful delivery from Ray Winstone or John Hurt contribute to the ever-present message of the film. The self-anihilation of a race in an effort to "civilize" and seperate the good from the bad is the backbone of this film, and the story and charecters never lose touch with that.
In the story, A British captain played by Ray Winstone offers a Proposition to Charlie Burns, an outlaw and a member of the Burns gang who terrorize the outback settlers. In order to save his dim-witted younger brother Mikey, he will have to kill his murderer/rapist older brother Arthur. The problem is, Arthur is the Pater Familias. Charlie sees that without him, they would have died a long time ago. And so in a place driven by men killing eachother, Charlie must balence the scales of his own morality and make a desicion.
The casting of this movie was spectacular, and the gritty nature of the charecters was clearly established from shooting in the Outback for so long. A harsh a place as that will provide undeniably angry people, and that feeling of want and desire to move up that comes from living in a place so god-awful is felt through the charecters.
This movie is powerfully acted, powerfully written, and powerfully directed. It is a grungy, violent, jaunting doc*mentation of a time and place we have not seen before on the silver screen. Overall, this is a very well done western and a true homage to Sergio Leone's re-creation of the genre.

~The Proposition

great review there , really like your beginning , but i feel like you forgot to mention the caliber of Nick's cave score

thanks, and yeah, i did forget to mention the score. If I were to rewrite it now the review would be a lot longer. One of the things i loved about this movie is that it refused to fall into line with other westerns. Just when you thought you could guess what came next, it spun you 180 degrees. I also thought one of the most impressive points was its ability to generate humor from the violence. For example, the scene with the stupid guard who blows his own toe off. Its weird how the violence pretty much drives every aspect of this film, but its not done in an exploitation sort of way like modern day movies like the SAW franchise. Truly impressive filmmaking.

I also thought one of the most impressive points was its ability to generate humor from the violence. Truly impressive filmmaking.

I also noticed that , it's like when Samuel stote his telling back the story of how he shot that guys head it's like if a 7 year old was telling his mom what he did that afternoon. or any scenes involving him for that matter or pretty comical , like i said earlier it was really genius to put your more psychopath killer be also the more childish one

No Elrocho, as you write, ive just finished watching my second viewing of my fav film of 2006.

I say 2006, thats when we got to see it over here, but was it released elsewhere in 2005?

Anyway, I first saw Ray Winstone's acting debut, in a rough, brutal movie based on a TV play called SC*M.
I hope this will be reviewed sometime in the movie club, as it is awesome.
Is that title avaliable in the States? .

Now this actor gets better the more you see him, and in THE PROPOSITION we see him as a troubled and complex character Captain Stanley having problems down under with a gang of ruthless outlaws, who have killed, raped, and butchered the Hopkins family. Who we later find out, that Mrs Hopkins was friends with Stanley's wife, played beautifuly by Emily Watson .

Winstone is head of the police and basicaly, he is a copper with a conscience, and wants whats best for the people..i.e to civilise the country.

He as in his hands two of the Burns gang, he is the youngest, and weakest, known as Mikey held in the cells, while he makes a proposition , to his older brother Charlie, played superbly once again by ex neighbours star Guy Pearce. To track down and kill his psycho brother Arthur, who all look like they could do with a good dentist.

Along the way, we see John Hurt as an ageing Bounty Hunter. Really you forget about some of these amazing actors as time goes by, and this my friends is an actor and a half.
His drunken piss taking at Guy Pearce was brilliant, as was his dying speech.

The whipping of Mikey at the order of David Wenham was sickenening, even the bloodthirsty crowd had had enough after 30 of the 100 lashings.

The other young brother who accompanies Arthur Burns, is a cheeky chapy,and a memorable scene was where when Mikey was having the cat o nine tails, the camera moves bacwards and forwards showing the younger brother singing an haunting irish folk song.Then retuning to the whipping.You get to like the psycho brother at first, with his boy like charms and wit .That is untill we see the chilling side to him, when at Christmas, it isnt only the Turkey that gets a good stuffin.

This is a must see movie, and just incase your about to watch it, I wont go on about the ending.. but im sure most will enjoy.. its an old fashioned Western tale, brought vividly to life by the excellent directing of JOHN HILLCOAT, from the screenplay by NICK CAVE...10/10

That is untill we see the chilling side to him, when at Christmas, it isnt only the Turkey that gets a good stuffin.

LOL!

I agree with you and Banshee's reviews also.

Hey guys I just picked up the movie tonight at Blockbuster. I'll watch it tomorrow and put up my thoughts. I didn't want you guys to think I was coppin out.

Hey guys I just picked up the movie tonight at Blockbuster. I'll watch it tomorrow and put up my thoughts. I didn't want you guys to think I was coppin out.

Oh no, Bolger! We would never think that :).

Alright just got done watching it. I had never seen it before and boy am I glad this was the first movie we selected. As elrocho said from the opening credits you knew this film was somthing special. And as Banshee said just when you thought you had it figured out they tossed you a curveball. The acting was tremedous and the score is one of the best I've ever heard. The great visuals throughout the film of the dry landscape and beautiful sunsets really set the stage for a bloody, powerful film.

Not much else to say that hasn't already been said Rocho, Banshee, and Stokie you guys really nailed it. Your reviews were great.

Truly one of the better films I've seen in recent years.

I just remebered. Rocho brought up somthing I found interesting. You never did completly know who was behind the rape and murder of the pregnant woman. It could have been Arthur but it also could have been Mikey and Charlie the film never answered that question with full certainty. I like that because it gives you somthing to think about after the movie is over. Do you guys have any thoughts on this?